I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
Shame there is no Graphene OS support for it
no other manufacturer than google ever will have graphnene os support. their requirements cannot be met unless you are a tech gian, and with exceptionally good connections to the hardware manufacturers
Was thinking the same thing. Not Graphenes fault though but a failing of OEMs to provide what’s necessary.
You could always go for /e/os though
Edit: Didn’t know it was this bad…
/e/os is a security dumpster fire. It’s even worse than stock Android. Stay away from it.
Can you explain?
Every other version of Android gets security updates out within a couple weeks of release at most.
/e/OS users are lucky if they get them within a couple months.
No offense, but that’s not what a security dumpster fire is. Security updates are important, of course, but they are also not the biggest deal.
In fact, I bet that the vast majority of users (on Android or otherwise) are lagging way behind in updates anyway.
That is not the only issue, it’s just one of the more major ones that shouldn’t be dismissed like it’s nothing. Another major one is the unlocked bootloader. You can take a look at all the Android ROMS here.
I think people should treat carefully when changing the OS of a mobile device. Changing your OS to something less secure just because you want to shove it to Google and Apple is not enough to warrant it. Better to stay with something safe that you know than with something insecure like /e/OS.
Luckily we have Graphene so you can actually switch to a more secure and private OS that is not made by an American corporation hungry for data.
I am not dismissing it, I am saying that is not as big as you make it to be. Most users lag behind in updates anyway, besides using minimal and trusted applications, the outside exposure to exploitation is relatively small, for a device without a public address. I am not the one APTs are going to use the SMS no-click 0-day against.
Similarly for the bootloader issue. The kind of attacks mitigated by this are not in most people threat models. They just are not. As someone else wrote, it’s possible to relock the bootloader anyway with official builds (such as my FP3). But anyway, even for myself the chance that my phone gets modified by physical access without my knowledge is a fraction of a fraction compared to the chance that someone will snatch the phone in my hand while unlocked, for example (a recent pattern).
If these two issues are what prompts you to call a “security dumpster fire”, I would say we at least have very different risk perceptions.
So an OS that boasts about the “privacy” it offers… Doesn’t need routine and consistent security updates?
Sure thing bud, keep going on like you know what you’re talking about.
Generally speaking privacy and security are related but not really linked to each other. Google services might be very secure, but a privacy nightmare for example. In this particular case, even more, because the chances that using a “googled” phone will mean data collection (I.e. privacy issues) are almost certain, while the risks we are talking about are much more niche and - as I elaborated on another comment - in my opinion not really in most people threat model.
I would like to hear your perspective instead, because I am not really into using authority arguments, but as a security engineer I believe to at least understand well the issue with security updates, vulnerabilities and exploits. So yes, I do think to know what I am talking about.
Graphene isn’t the best choice for everything. It doesn’t have good backup solutions nor device to device backup or anything solid for complete snapshots and when restoring your so called backups you’ll realize what all it truly lacks.
It’s hardened and has a lot of security and privacy features but none of that matters if your opsec is bad, or it’s feature set doesn’t match your threat model. I am not knocking it at all. It just isn’t the white knight for every case.
Agreed.
That said, it would be awesome to have an alternative to Pixel devices if you do want GrapheneOS.
The project has sort of silo’d itself into security which is only one part of the equation. Rather than overall completeness, functionality, maintainability. It’s lacking major fundamental feature sets. Thus its more of a tails meets whonix/Qubes right now not a all in one bow wrapped package to save the day for its consumer base. Many many other issues/bugs I didnt list. Perhaps I’ll add more tomorrow. If everyone wants.
And that’s exactly what it should be IMO. I prefer a project with narrow goals to one that does everything, but poorly.
If I want backups, I can use something like Syncthing. When moving to a new device, I prefer to install everything from scratch because I generally don’t use most of the apps I have anyway. I don’t put anything critical on it, so why would I need to restore from a snapshot?
If you want those features, it’s not the ROM for you.
I just want a simple device with a long support cycle and no spyware, and GrapheneOS delivers. I have Google Play Services on a seperate profile, and my main profile is completely free of that crap. I want a Linux phone, but every phone has serious limitations, like missing audio, sketchy calls, or completely broken camera. GrapheneOS is the closest experience I have to that.
If I want backups, I can use something like Syncthing.
syncthing cant backup your device. that is a file transfer app. for backing up the device you need either appmanager and root, or good old dd and root (and a half shutdown system)
I don’t put anything critical on it, so why would I need to restore from a snapshot?
- because not everyone uses the device the same way as you
- snapshots are always complete. file based backups are not because of metadata changes. seedvault even less because it picks apps except this and that, and an unknown subset of the settings, and shared storage for the files that you have enabled
If you want those features, it’s not the ROM for you.
currently there’s no ROM on which you could execute a real backup, thanks to encrypted storage with keys stored in TPM. TPM sees a change, and now your backup is a useless blob of practically random data
I just want a simple device with a long support cycle and no spyware, and GrapheneOS delivers.
as does calyx os
I have Google Play Services on a sperate profile, and my main profile is completely free of that crap. I want a Linux phone, but every phone has serious limitations, like missing audio, sketchy calls, or completely broken camera.
with microg, this can be done on calyx too. there’s even a few options on how much you want google to know.
and if your point is that not all apps work with microg, then you would never actually move to a linux phone because that will never have google play services (hopefully, else something has gone way wrong), probably not even microg or apps that would depend on it
syncthing cant backup your device. that is a file transfer app.
That’s exactly what backup software is, it’s keeping copies of important data in multiple places so if one dies/gets stolen, you have backup copies.
I can tell syncthing to copy all my important data to another device.
I don’t need all the installed apps or a disk image, that’s way overkill. I could do that, but it’ll get way more than I need.
as does calyx os
You’re right, Calyx OS is also a good choice.
I went with GrapheneOS for two reasons:
- sandboxed Google Play vs microG - no option AFAIK to disable it
- faster security updates
My goal is a baby step toward Linux phones, not compatibility with Android. I only have Google Play Services on a separate profile, and I spend 95% of my time on the profile without it. The less I rely on Google Play Services, the easier it’ll be for me to transition to Linux alternatives.
Better app compatibility is a nice side effect. I have a handful of apps that rely on Google Play Services, and there’s a decent chance they wouldn’t work on microG. But I rarely use them and I’m willing to go without if it means I can have a Linux phone.
sandboxed Google Play vs microG - no option AFAIK to disable it
you mean disabling microg?
if so you can refuse installation at profile setup. if you make a new profile, you can choose to install it there. then in microg settings there are some toggles for functionality
btw, which of your apps nead google services?
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
No, it’s the other way around. Fairphone needs to implement the things Graphene requires.
Por que no los dos?
GrapheneOS can’t add hardware features to an existing phone. That’s why no los dos.
I’m waiting on a Framework Phone.
If they just didn’t drop the headphone jack.
Ah, that’s a dealbreaker for me
How else would they push their mediocre reviewed Bluetooth headsets and ear buds?
I wish they could implement the parts of the Pixel phones that allow GrapheneOS to be used.
What parts are these? I’ve always wondered what this was about, why the pixel was the only phone that could support GrapheneOS
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
So, graphene could be put on those phones if the devs wanted to do it, but it would be less secure since the bootloader would remain unlocked.
Also, supporting a small line a phones is probably infinitely easier than a range, of devices, but it would be nice to have another option. Especially now that the Fairphone pice is reasonable.
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
That is not the case. SHIFTmq, Motorola and Fairphone allow the bootloader to be relocked with a custom rom. There are many requirements the Fairphone lacks for GrapheneOS, but relocking the bootloader is not one of them.
I really wish this was available in the US. I’ve found myself able to hang on to devices longer and longer. So this would be perfect. I’m only charging my battery to 80% and discharging it to 30% before charging it again just to prolong the life of the battery because that’s the first thing that dies on most devices. Having a user replaceable battery again would be an absolute godsend.
That’s cool. Let me know when it gets support for GrapheneOS and finds it’s headphone jack again.
Big red flag:
I’m using this phone right now and I love it. it feels solid. Im using a degoogled ROM and it just works, there seems to be a lot of people pressing for graphene os specifically and discrediting the phone for what it is. its so easy to take apart and cheaply repair its great. it’s perfect for folk who want a decent smartphone that you dont have to worry about being thrown around. sure it’s not perfect but it is still a very good
What’s the cost to replace a cracked screen?
You can buy the OLED display as a spare part for 100 EUR on the official website. https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/category/spare-parts-4?category=4&filters=31
Yeah, that plus labor is 80% of what I typically pay for a whole brand new phone… I know why it is this way, but it really is this way and that makes it very hard for low volume players to enter the market.
The heck are you talking about? If you change it yourself it’s still 100€. And you won’t find any decent smartphone at this price.
I typically pay US$250 for unlocked smartphones, and they are fine for me, my wife, my kids, friends and family…
If the screen is 100€ and the labor to install it competently (I suppose this is a DIY serviceable phone, but the screen?) is another 75€, that’s 80% of what I would be paying for a brand new phone.
I really want this to come to the US as well…
Is this phone also more secure?
The problem we are running into right now is Apple and Google are colluding with the US government over fascism and they are supporting their Nazi regime
They have all the power and they can change all of these services overnight, they can track you and everything and you will have no idea and no way to get rid of it
We really need an open replacement. Phones are now used for everything
I used a Fairphone 4 with /e/ and it was good. Not great, but useable. I expect the hardware bugs I ran into (using the camera only worked like 20 times before the phone needed a restart, Bluetooth randomly not working) to be ironed out by now. Currently on an old Samsung and it is more solid, but I also liked the environmentalism with the fairphone. Anyone with a Fairphone 5 and something like a glucose sensor thats in constant use?
Is this phone also more secure?
Probably not.
Apple & Google have spent considerable amounts of time building out hardware security infrastructure for their products that I find it extremely unlikely Fairphone would have been able to match.
For example, the popular alternative Android OS GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixels, because: (Emphasis added by me)
“There are currently no other devices meeting even the most basic security requirements while running an alternate OS. GrapheneOS is very interested in supporting a non-Pixel brand, but the vast majority of Android OEMs do not take security seriously. Samsung takes security almost as seriously as Google, but they deliberately cripple their devices when unlock them to install another OS and don’t allow an alternate OS to use important security features. If Samsung permitted GrapheneOS to support their devices properly, many of their phones would be the closest to meeting our requirements. They’re currently missing the very important hardware memory tagging feature, but only because it’s such a new feature”
If even Samsung, the only other phone brand on the market they consider close to meeting their standards, doesn’t support every modern hardware security feature, and deliberately cripples their security for alternate OS’s, as a multi billion dollar company, I doubt Fairphone has custom-built hardware security mechanisms for their phones to the degree that Google has.
Well yeah, because why would phone companies care? Consumers buy devices based on camera and display quality, not for security, privacy, etc. I just had a chat w/ a coworker about a Chinese device with an incredible camera and big battery, and I highly doubt it does anything but the bare minimum for security. It’s a cool piece of hardware, but a no-go for anyone that cares even a little about security updates.
I have a Pixel device because it has a long SW support cycle (Google promises at least 7 years), and I use GrapheneOS because it removes Google’s spyware crap. I’m not married to GrapheneOS or Pixel devices, I just need something where the software support will last at least longer than my desire to keep the device (about 4-5 years for me). I’ve ditched each of my last phones largely because they ran out of security update support, and that sucks.
I’d prefer a Linux phone w/ decent security features, but they don’t meet my minimum standards for things working (just need phone features to work properly, don’t need apps). The moment a Linux phone comes out than actually works properly and has reasonable security, I’ll switch. The FairPhone could be that, but it’s not, so I don’t have one.
Not only that, it’s really really hard to leave the app ecosystem. Anything that has an alternative basically has to run Android apps as well
I mean with smart homes and all the various apps, it becomes really hard to switch phones even. Even your bank app
The headphone jack user to lemmy user ratio is apparently nearly 1:1
Yeah, Lemmy is full of people stuck in their way and insisting older tech is better because they refuse to update
Sometimes older tech is better. I have both Bluetooth and wired headphones, and I prefer the wired ones. In fact, I’m wearing wired headphones right now, because my laptop has a jack. I can’t do that on my phone, because my phone doesn’t have a jack (and I refuse to use a dongle), so I use inferior Bluetooth headphones.
I would much rather have a slightly larger phone with worse water proofing if it means I can have a headphone jack. I have never had an issue with water ingress, or with a slightly thick phone, but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones. In fact, my Bluetooth headphones have the option for a wire, so I just need to plug in a cable to keep listening if the batteries die (fairly often when traveling).
but I have had an issue w/ my Bluetooth headphones dying and not being able to plug in my wired headphones
and I refuse to use a dongle
Sounds like your problem was self-made. I use wired headphones flawlessly without the 3.5mm jack and reap all the benefits of both worlds, because the older tech isnt actually superior
Please get through the FCC and open sales in the USA before Fairphone 6 is made.
I really don’t want to buy another unrepairable phone.
Do you know why it’s not in the US?
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Great idea, but will never take down here in south America
People know that all these import parts and replacements are not exactly easy to pay for, even less to find. They need a cheap reliable phone that will at least handle day to day for years
I mean come on, the average cellphone user here is still using the equivalent of a Moto G2 or Samsung J2 and thats stretching it.
An S8 is still seen like luxury in here. And I’m not even going into iphones.
2nd hand pixels beats any midrange phone at the same price. Sent some with GOS on them to a friend in Nicaragua. Quite instantly he broke the screen , bought new screen on ebay that shipped directly to bumfuck nowhere on milestone address. But yea with fairphone I understand the issue
The hardware is good and I like the idea in principle but Fairphone’s support and software QA is dreadful and you need to hope you never need the former because of problems with the latter. My FP5 was bricked by an update they pushed out and after six weeks of trying to get a solution from their support (four weeks of which they didn’t respond at all) I ended up claiming on insurance and buying a Pixel. According to the forums this problem is far from unique to me.
I’ve been running FP4 for about 2 years now. the software bug fix cycle leaves something to be desired.
for example, the first 16 months of my ownership had every single phone call screaming at me. I mean, the volume was loud enough it was quieter than the speaker phone.
the did eventually fix that bug, but not two months later there’s a bug that breaks my running processes button(square at the bottom). as of right now there’s no fix other than using the OEM shitty launcher. so, 5-10 times a day I have to go to settings > apps > default apps > launcher > bliss launcher > running apps > settings > launchers > my launcher > close what I just had to use > go back to what I was just doing.
I enjoy the phone, don’t get me wrong. I just wish they performed better software testing on their own hardware.
I got the phone for the ethics, reparability, and privacy. I’ll never go back.
Get on LineageOS.
Anyone tried this Linuxphone?
I looked at it, but it looks really outdated phone. Would be interesting if we live in a 2015, but not today.
In what way does it look outdated?
Look at its specs. Processor and screen and so on.
People need to stop wanking over specs for a device that’ll be used 99% of the time to send text messages and watch YouTube videos
What do you need on a phone that takes 8gb+ ram?
That’s sound in theory, but app developers don’t really test on low end phones, so the apps tend to get more and more bloated as time goes by. As soon as you need something with a map, you’re pretty much fucked. Looking at all the hiking maps that just get progressively worse without adding anything that I care for.
