American Dr Mark Perlmutter, who has volunteered in Gaza, says one of his Palestinian colleagues was taken by Israeli occupation forces, had his fingers shattered and was told to confess to being a member of Hamas or have his wife gang raped in front of him.
Soldiers ‘crushed’ his fingers, Perlmutter explains, adding that they also threatened to ‘send a drone to your bedroom window and incinerate your children.’ The doctor did not confess and spent 11 months being tortured in Israeli detention.
This is yet another one of many examples that affirms the correct answer to “does israel have a right to exist?” is no. No nation has an inherent right to exist, but certainly a nation as horrible as israel should not exist for many reasons, including morally, just like how nazi germany has no right to exist.
I think you’re getting into dangerous territory with that thinking. People are not a monolith, even when an outspoken and visible portion of the population are monsters. Secondly, you say “Nazi germany has no right to exist,” but Germany does. Painting with that broad a brush and speaking in such absolutes opens the door to horrible acts. Because the zionists speak the exact same way about Palestine. That’s where that thinking and language can lead you.
Germany does not have the right to exist. The German people have a right to self determination, like any people in the world does. This right is not tied to any specific state.
It is also completely absurd to define such rights to a specific state. Any specific state needs a specific government, a specific territory and a specific people. The only thing that carried over from the Nazi era was the people. A different government was formed on a very different territory. If you claim “Germany has a right to exist” in connection with the Nazi Reich, that Germany would have to include large swaths of what is todays Poland and Czech Republic.
Meanwhile there was no Israel in 1947. There was no Israeli people in 1947. The entire people is a construct, that only started to become a reality through 80 years of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinian people. Now that they are a people is a reality. That this people thus has the right to form a fascist state and deny the rights to the people who they have uprooted is nonsense.
If the US was to invade Canada, drive the Canadians north of the arctic circle and then claim this is US-Canada now because the filled it with millions of their own settlers, that does not create a “right to exist” for US-Canada.
Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
while said country does, in fact, exist
Irrelevant in whether or not it has the right to do so
straight up genocidal ground
Don’t be an idiot, it’s nowhere near the same thing
If that’s what you think, extend the thought experiment. Say you get what you want, Israel stops existing tomorrow. What happens to everyone there?
Say you get what you want, Israel stops existing tomorrow
Easy: that’s not what I want
What happens to everyone there?
A different government rules over them
I’m always really surprised more people don’t post this stuff in conservative dominated spaces.
They’re not monsters. Aside from the trolls and bots that are paid to try to sway them to be. Also the under 20 year olds that are edge Lords.
I think it’s legit to get discussions and to challenge their core beliefs honestly. I do it. Some get through, sometimes I get banned. But I’m surprised more people don’t go out and do similar
Have you tried? Your fantasy depiction of unfortunate misguided Nazis does not meet up with reality.
I do. I’m saying I’m surprised I don’t see more. It happens with spaces on the left all the time too.
It’s crazy how in the last ten years we have allowed moderation to drive us into separate corners. A time out was maybe a good idea. But we should still be working to merge back into a single Internet.
And fuck off with the ‘they’re are all Nazis’ shit. That’s the same bullshit that made MAGA go off the rails.
I know on Reddit that r/conservative had a bit of a meltdown because their users started having honest takes like “people should be held accountable for Intel leak”
They have this term “my fellow conservatives” that was clearly bots trying to suppress anyone from voicing dissent. Surprisingly lots of down votes for it. Just saying maybe there’s a middle ground more than people think.
And fuck off with the ‘they’re are all Nazis’ shit
Nah. They’re sitting at the Nazi table, until they willingly walk away: they’re Nazis. If they don’t like hearing it they can off themselves or leave the Nazi table, either one is fine
You can’t “leave the Nazi table” if there’s no actual Nazi table. Take Ukraine, for example: think of the Azov Brigade. It doesn’t’t mean the entire Ukrainian population or military is made up of Nazi just because they’re tolerated.
It’s a fallacy to judge the whole based on an extreme subset. Just because there are far-right elements within a group doesn’t mean everyone in that group shares those beliefs.
Now, I’m not denying that some people are too comfortable with far-right ideologies within their ranks. That’s a real issue. But I also know many who clearly don’t align with that. So, while it’s valid to call out Nazi ideology when it appears, labeling people or groups as Nazis indiscriminately just weakens the argument.
Instead of using “Nazi” as a blunt instrument, we should confront the actual behavior when it happens and hold people accountable for it. That approach is far more likely to lead to real consequences and dialogue, rather than being written off as exaggeration or political posturing.
if there’s no actual Nazi table
So you’re blind or stupid? If you think the Nazi table doesn’t exist, let alone isn’t literally in charge right now then it’s one or the other
